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	<title>Comments on: I had a feeling this was going to happen when Six Apart bought LJ</title>
	<link>http://hackenblog.hackenbush.org/2007/08/16/i-had-a-feeling-this-was-going-to-happen-when-six-apart-bought-lj/</link>
	<description>The New Hackenblog</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 10:58:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Anil</title>
		<link>http://hackenblog.hackenbush.org/2007/08/16/i-had-a-feeling-this-was-going-to-happen-when-six-apart-bought-lj/#comment-1857</link>
		<dc:creator>Anil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 23:19:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hackenblog.hackenbush.org/2007/08/16/i-had-a-feeling-this-was-going-to-happen-when-six-apart-bought-lj/#comment-1857</guid>
		<description>"Do you have links that explain why 6A condones pro-ana and pro-Nazi sites?"

This is so intellectually dishonest, it makes it seem as if you're not actually interested in having a conversation, along the lines of asking "when did you stop beating your wife?" No, we don't condone those things, as you've quoted &lt;em&gt;in your own post&lt;/em&gt;, the text you've linked to says "LiveJournal does not support girls harming themselves."

Frankly, I'm astounded that you're willing to assert things that you've refuted on your own blog post.

And long before I worked with Mena, I was her friend. I'm sorry that you don't understand the desire I have to not see my friends insulted publicly by people who've never met them. Most people I talk to seem to understand why that would be a bad thing. I certainly don't think Mena's ever said people shouldn't speak passionately about their ideas, but if your theoretical desire is fairness, you might do well to read things like &lt;a href="http://community.livejournal.com/lj_biz/242136.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;this LiveJournal policy post&lt;/a&gt; or &lt;a href="http://community.livejournal.com/lj_biz/242136.html?thread=13986776#t13986776" rel="nofollow"&gt;this apology and clarification&lt;/a&gt;.

In short: There was an explanation of policy days ago, which made it clear that journals will not be deleted without warning, and will only be reviewed if they've been reported. We never go out looking for material to respond to.

And not to belabor the point, but Mena's speech in France was about accountability, much more than it was about civility. If you would like to try and be accountable for your words, my mobile phone number is ###### (removed by GM), and my IM is anildash. You've already got my email address. Please feel free to get in touch personally if you'd like to use the same tenor and stridency while responding irresponsibly on the basis of factually incorrect assumptions that have been clearly disproven.

Or, I'd settle for you just being a little more considered the next time you want to call out one of my friends or question the ethics of the good people that I work with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Do you have links that explain why 6A condones pro-ana and pro-Nazi sites?&#8221;</p>
<p>This is so intellectually dishonest, it makes it seem as if you&#8217;re not actually interested in having a conversation, along the lines of asking &#8220;when did you stop beating your wife?&#8221; No, we don&#8217;t condone those things, as you&#8217;ve quoted <em>in your own post</em>, the text you&#8217;ve linked to says &#8220;LiveJournal does not support girls harming themselves.&#8221;</p>
<p>Frankly, I&#8217;m astounded that you&#8217;re willing to assert things that you&#8217;ve refuted on your own blog post.</p>
<p>And long before I worked with Mena, I was her friend. I&#8217;m sorry that you don&#8217;t understand the desire I have to not see my friends insulted publicly by people who&#8217;ve never met them. Most people I talk to seem to understand why that would be a bad thing. I certainly don&#8217;t think Mena&#8217;s ever said people shouldn&#8217;t speak passionately about their ideas, but if your theoretical desire is fairness, you might do well to read things like <a href="http://community.livejournal.com/lj_biz/242136.html" rel="nofollow">this LiveJournal policy post</a> or <a href="http://community.livejournal.com/lj_biz/242136.html?thread=13986776#t13986776" rel="nofollow">this apology and clarification</a>.</p>
<p>In short: There was an explanation of policy days ago, which made it clear that journals will not be deleted without warning, and will only be reviewed if they&#8217;ve been reported. We never go out looking for material to respond to.</p>
<p>And not to belabor the point, but Mena&#8217;s speech in France was about accountability, much more than it was about civility. If you would like to try and be accountable for your words, my mobile phone number is ###### (removed by GM), and my IM is anildash. You&#8217;ve already got my email address. Please feel free to get in touch personally if you&#8217;d like to use the same tenor and stridency while responding irresponsibly on the basis of factually incorrect assumptions that have been clearly disproven.</p>
<p>Or, I&#8217;d settle for you just being a little more considered the next time you want to call out one of my friends or question the ethics of the good people that I work with.</p>
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		<title>By: Ginger Mayerson</title>
		<link>http://hackenblog.hackenbush.org/2007/08/16/i-had-a-feeling-this-was-going-to-happen-when-six-apart-bought-lj/#comment-1856</link>
		<dc:creator>Ginger Mayerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 22:14:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hackenblog.hackenbush.org/2007/08/16/i-had-a-feeling-this-was-going-to-happen-when-six-apart-bought-lj/#comment-1856</guid>
		<description>Anil,

You're welcome to post links and explanations here.  Be my guest.

Do you have links that explain why 6A condones pro-ana and pro-Nazi sites?  I'd be very interested in those.  If I were a parent, I'd be more worried about those than slash fan fic and artwork.

And speaking of parents.... Is Mena really so thin skinned she needs her employees to defend her?  Hm.  I just thought she was as foul mouthed as I am, but had more opportunities &lt;a href="http://www.blogherald.com/2005/12/07/mena-trott-implodes-on-stage-at-les-blogs-calls-participant-an-asshole-after-lecturing-audience-about-the-importance-of-civility/" TARGET="_blank" rel="nofollow"&gt;to lecture European audiences on civility&lt;/a&gt;.  Hey, at least I didn't call her an asshole.  I think she apologized for calling the guy an asshole, but the part that makes me laugh is that she was in Paris talking about civility before she called him an asshole.  Chacun &#224; son go&#251;t, mais pour moi, je peut seulement rire.

So, anyway, since Mena is enciente, if you like that word better, I suppose any appeals to her for (more) civility and fairness in the execution of the LJ deletion policy wouldn't get very far.  As I understand it, and this might have changed, LJs were being deleted without any warning or possible appeal.

You can critique (if that's what you're doing) my feminism as much as you like, Anil, it goes with the territory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anil,</p>
<p>You&#8217;re welcome to post links and explanations here.  Be my guest.</p>
<p>Do you have links that explain why 6A condones pro-ana and pro-Nazi sites?  I&#8217;d be very interested in those.  If I were a parent, I&#8217;d be more worried about those than slash fan fic and artwork.</p>
<p>And speaking of parents&#8230;. Is Mena really so thin skinned she needs her employees to defend her?  Hm.  I just thought she was as foul mouthed as I am, but had more opportunities <a href="http://www.blogherald.com/2005/12/07/mena-trott-implodes-on-stage-at-les-blogs-calls-participant-an-asshole-after-lecturing-audience-about-the-importance-of-civility/" TARGET="_blank" rel="nofollow">to lecture European audiences on civility</a>.  Hey, at least I didn&#8217;t call her an asshole.  I think she apologized for calling the guy an asshole, but the part that makes me laugh is that she was in Paris talking about civility before she called him an asshole.  Chacun &agrave; son go&ucirc;t, mais pour moi, je peut seulement rire.</p>
<p>So, anyway, since Mena is enciente, if you like that word better, I suppose any appeals to her for (more) civility and fairness in the execution of the LJ deletion policy wouldn&#8217;t get very far.  As I understand it, and this might have changed, LJs were being deleted without any warning or possible appeal.</p>
<p>You can critique (if that&#8217;s what you&#8217;re doing) my feminism as much as you like, Anil, it goes with the territory.</p>
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		<title>By: Anil</title>
		<link>http://hackenblog.hackenbush.org/2007/08/16/i-had-a-feeling-this-was-going-to-happen-when-six-apart-bought-lj/#comment-1855</link>
		<dc:creator>Anil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 21:13:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hackenblog.hackenbush.org/2007/08/16/i-had-a-feeling-this-was-going-to-happen-when-six-apart-bought-lj/#comment-1855</guid>
		<description>Hi Ginger, I work with Six Apart and I had a chance to read your post... I think almost all of the posts you've listed here have been responded to at various points, most days ago. If you'd like, I'm happy to point you to links to where those conversations have taken place.

More to the point, though, I'd love to get the chance to talk -- it's not just incorrect to say we're unethical, it's irresponsible when you haven't gotten all the facts. I bet if I can share more information about what's happened with some of these conversations, you might revise your opinion. 

Finally, for someone who's a feminist to refer to a female entrepreneur (who's also one of my closest friends) as a "knocked up", "wicked", "stupid" person seems contradictory. In fact, it seems like the kind of fact-free bullying personal attack that so many women, especially in the technology industry, face. I hope we can start a conversation that might help you rethink those kinds of tactics.

And no, money isn't the only thing that gets our attention -- our community certainly does. Unfortunately, so do baseless, needlessly personal, meanspirited attacks on individuals. That's a problem I think we can both help solve.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ginger, I work with Six Apart and I had a chance to read your post&#8230; I think almost all of the posts you&#8217;ve listed here have been responded to at various points, most days ago. If you&#8217;d like, I&#8217;m happy to point you to links to where those conversations have taken place.</p>
<p>More to the point, though, I&#8217;d love to get the chance to talk &#8212; it&#8217;s not just incorrect to say we&#8217;re unethical, it&#8217;s irresponsible when you haven&#8217;t gotten all the facts. I bet if I can share more information about what&#8217;s happened with some of these conversations, you might revise your opinion. </p>
<p>Finally, for someone who&#8217;s a feminist to refer to a female entrepreneur (who&#8217;s also one of my closest friends) as a &#8220;knocked up&#8221;, &#8220;wicked&#8221;, &#8220;stupid&#8221; person seems contradictory. In fact, it seems like the kind of fact-free bullying personal attack that so many women, especially in the technology industry, face. I hope we can start a conversation that might help you rethink those kinds of tactics.</p>
<p>And no, money isn&#8217;t the only thing that gets our attention &#8212; our community certainly does. Unfortunately, so do baseless, needlessly personal, meanspirited attacks on individuals. That&#8217;s a problem I think we can both help solve.</p>
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